What Do Atheists Believe?

» left by Tex Norman

3 years 65 days ago.
47 fans.

Dear John:

 

I hesitate to respond, because I don't want to come off like I am attacking you.  I am not.  I am pleased that you are expressing your views and hope you will continue to do so.  I hesitate to respond because I am not sure if it is a good thing for an atheist to debate theists.  

 

You have explained what atheists believe, and much of it you have gotten right, but some of it, I feel, has "missed the mark."

 

As far as I can tell, and I could be wrong, but I think I might be the only person writing on Search Warp who claims to be an atheist.  As I read your article I couldn't help but get the thought that it seems, at least to me, like you are feeling threatened by atheists. 

 

I can understand that feeling.  I sometimes feel threatened by Christians.

 

It is my understanding, however, that atheists, real atheists, are in the minority.  Theists (Christians, Jews, and Muslims) are in the majority.  Why would any group holding the vast majority feel threatened by another group that is made up of a tiny fraction of your numbers?

 

The largest population of atheists are found in East Germany where 88.20% of their population describe themselves as atheists. There is a fast drop in percentage after the East Germans.

 

Slovenia 29.80%

Russia 27.30% 

Israel 25.60% 

Netherlands 24.10% 

Hungary 23.30% 

Norway 14.90% 

Britain 14.00% 

West Germany 12.10% 

New Zealand 11.50%

 

In the United States the percentage of atheists varies between 2 % and 9%

 

Don’t these percentages indicate that in every country on earth the number of people who don’t believe in God are almost always in the minority?

  

It is my opinion that both theists and atheists are both embracing a conclusion based on faith. I have faith that there is no God, that life is just an interesting quirk of chemistry and evolution, and the theists believe that some higher power just spoke everything into existence.

 

I don’t think the data is there to prove one belief is absolutely, indisputably, irrefutable true. In my opinion there are indicators gleaned from science that indicate that there are chemical, natural explanations for the existence of life and the universe.

 

A creator. . . would have had to be present right at the start of the universe. The whole message of evolution is that complexity and intelligence and all the things that would go with being a creative force come late, they come as a consequence of hundreds of millions of years of natural selection. There was no intelligence early on in the universe. ~Richard Dawkins in an interview by Sheena McDonald of the BBC

 

I tend to buy the Dawkins idea, but I also believe that his view is not provable. Dawkins’s idea fits with what I understand of the theory of evolution, and there are so many reasons to believe in evolution to fill many thousand of pages, but there is not absolute proof there to convince you, or other believers that my view is correct.

 

Interesting it would only take one single fact to bring down the entire theory of evolution, and there have been thousands of fundamentalist Christians, some of them with science backgrounds, who have focused mightily on disproving the theory, and, so far, the only reason anyone has to reject evolution is that it doesn’t fit with their theistic beliefs.

 

The case for theism is almost totally without any facts.  There are lots of scriptures, of course, and if you accept the Bible as the inerrant Word of God, then perhaps you have all you need to come to your position of faith.  If, however, you don't see the Bible as inerrant, or anything other than a book written by humans, well, then the case for belief gets much harder to buy.

 

"Theology is but the ignorance of natural causes reduced to a system."--Baron d'Holbach, Common Sense (1772)

 

I think most people believe in God because they can’t explain stuff that happens, and the psychology of human beings demands that there be some explanation. People take things that happen to them, and lay over that the template of their faith, and if the template encases their anecdotal experience they go, “See, there is the proof! I dropped the storm window, my little girl was under the ladder, I called out, ‘Lord save my child!’, and God caused that window to miss my child and her life was saved."

 

There is no doubt that the parent who prays and is lucky enough for the outcome to match their prayer feels that their faith has been confirmed, but if you spend any time around the ER you know that there have been a lot of prayers that resulted in horrendous injuries and painful, ugly death.

 

Why, I wonder, does God cure diseases that people may or may not have, but he never grows a leg back on an amputee.

 

Go to eBay and you can find the face of Jesus on a burrito and the Madonna on the side of a slice of toast. There are people who really take these things as evidence of God sending us food messages I suppose.

 

When I was growing up, I remember being exposed to Greek Mythology, and sometimes those myths resembled, to some degree, the stories I was taught in Sunday school and from the pulpit. My family mocked and ridiculed the myths. I saw a conflict. I think now that the existence of the Judeo-Christian/Islamic God is just as improbable as the existence of Zeus his gang of god-pals on Mount Olympus. I have the same amount of evidence for the existence of Yahweh, Jehovah, or Allah as I have for Zeus—which is none at all.

 

The debate over the existence or non-existence of God is settled, at least for me, in a way similar to how a criminal trial is settled. In a trial, no matter how good the evidence, we can never hope to have guilt beyond all doubt. The best we can ever hope for is to find guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. I can’t prove God does not exist, beyond all doubt, but I believe my doubt is reasonable.

 

Please see my response only as a response, and an expression of my opinion, and it is not, in any way an attack on you, or your right to believe and promulgate your faith as you see fit.

 

I have not addressed everything in your article, but I may write something up as an article of my own rather than a comment.  Best wishes to you, and thank you for sparking my thinking processes.

 

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» left by John Waddey from arizona 3 years 63 days ago.

Dear Tex:

 

Thanks for you observations. First of all I want to compliment you for your honesty. Not all who claim to believe in no God are as you. In stating what atheists believe you will recall that I quoted extensively from the book Four Hundred Years of Free Thought by S. P. Putnam, a leading spokesman for atheists of past generations. I freely concede that there are varieties and degrees of unbelief. You yourself do not reflect the same dogmatic, hateful spirit of Dawkins and Hitchens.

Christians living in America are under unrelenting attack by the forces of unbelief and secularism. True, they are not using physical violence against us. But they are pressing their agenda in every state through every available medium. Because secularists have positioned themselves in our schools of higher learning, because they have gained control of the teachers’ unions and textbook publishers they are able to brainwash and propagandize our children. Because they have gained important positions in the media and entertainment industries they are able to dominate the movies and television that citizens of our nation see. Because they have gained a strong foothold in our judicial system, they dominate our courts and commonly issue edicts and make rules that go against our Christian values. Through their legal organizations, The American Civil Liberties Union and Americans United for the Separation of Church and State, they constantly harass and intimidate churches and Christians with threats of costly lawsuits.

You are correct in saying that the actual number of atheists in America is small, less than ten percent. But 6,000 committed Marxists were able to capture Russia and impose the Communistic rule over them and threaten the entire world. For 70 years. Ten terrorists were able to wreak havoc, kill 175 and wound 300 in Bombay and keep the entire city of 18 million paralyzed for days. Those who grabbed control of Russia, Eastern Europe, China and Cuba were all atheists.

You concede that both Christians and atheists base their conclusions on faith. That is a major concession on your part. Most of your comrades vainly insist that they are acting on scientific facts. But you are correct that they choose to believe in no God. However Christ have something on which to base their faith. "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ" (Rom. 10:17). "The heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament showeth his handiwork" (Ps. 19:1). Laws of logic point to a Supreme Being. Every effect must have an adequate cause. Our universe is in motion, What set it in motion? The existence of the universe demands a reasonable explanation. A massive explosion is neither adequate nor reasonable to explain the universe. Life only comes from prior life. We can trace man’s ancestry back to the first man and women, but the question is who was their progenitor? It is reasonable to say that a watchmaker made the intricate clock. It is foolish to say the clock evolved accidently without intelligent envolvement. It is reasonable to say that you were born of your human parents. It is foolish to say that you evolved from a pond of water by accident.

As to your faith in evolution, have you ever considered that fact that no proof of evolution has been found? It is a faith-based philosophy that seeks to explain the realities of life without acknowledging a Supreme Being who created and continues to exercise his power in our world. Many leading evolutionists have acknowledged this unpleasant fact. But still they prefer to cling to evolution lest they have to concede a Creator, who, for personal reasons, they refuse to acknowledge.

Christians are not ignorant of natural causes. We do however hesitate to embrace unproven theories. In yesterday’s paper there a headline read, "Asteroid collisions may have begun life" This theory by Dr.Yoshihiro Furukawa of Japan’s Tohoku University is the latest of hundreds of speculations about the origin of life. Imagine, two cars collide and produce a cow. Wow!

Christians believe that God does in fact care for them and in some situations intervenes on their behalf. Unbelievers attribute such blessings to luck, fortune or their own smartness. We are told by our God that he loves us and cares for us. "The Lord is my helper: I will not fear" (Heb. 13:6). I find it almost humerous that some militant unbelievrs when facing some horrible situation or death call out for God’s help? Is this something that has evolved in their minds or is it a vestigial thing of their pre-human past?

Since you can’t prove that God does not exist, you cannot be a fully credentialed atheist. At best you are only an agnostic who is unsure. Dr. Anthony Flew, noted "atheist" was forced to admit this in his debate with Dr. Thomas B. Warren, Christian.

Some foolish and superstitutious people see claim to see signs in cookies or shadows, but not intelligent, thinking Christians. I have encountered a few ranting, raving atheists whose courage must have come from a bottle.

If you cannot see any difference between Zeus and his pantheon and Jehovah of the Bible, I am left to wonder if you have really seriously read the Bible to see what it has to say about our God? Or if you have really read much about the pagan gods? The difference is stark.

You should be glad that God made natural laws to govern everyday life on earth. Among them are the laws governing our immune system and the limitations of what our bodies can do. We have a system that can fight infections and heal itself of many diseases or wounds. The creator did not include reproduction of lost limbs. If we evolved from reptiles, we should be able to grow some new extensions. Some lizards can grow a new tail. We have no choice but to accept and abide by the natural laws at work in our world, be they gravity, motion, or how living things are made and function.

May you have a good day and a wonderful Christmas Season....even if you do not believe in the reason for the season.

John Waddey

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» left by Tex Norman 3 years 62 days ago.
47 fans.

Thanks John, or your well thought out response, and for not attacking me personally.    I don't expect you and I to come to any sort of agreement on these matters, but I do respect your position, and, it is a position I know well.

 

I was raised in a fundamentalist church, I have Bible based degrees from three higher Ed Christian Institutions, and I have been a minister in a fundamentalist church, and then, much later I was ordained in the Episcopal Church. 

 

I not only have read the Bible, I continue to read it.

 

While I will agree that technically I would be called an agnostic because I say KNOWING God does not exist is unknowable, I do not consider myself to be an agnostic, because I have chosen to believe He does not exist.

 

Oddly, to be supportive of my wife, I may be attending church again.  In my every day life I do not make a big deal of my faithlessness.  I try to be kind and supportive of believers.  If their faith enhances their life I am happy for them. 

 

Peace be with you, and have a blessed Christmas.  tex

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» left by john waddey from arizona 3 years 62 days ago.

Dear Tex:

 

I certainly have no intention of attacking you, but I would very much like to persuade you to return to "your first love" (Rev. 2:4).  You are not unique.  Many people have grown up in a religious home, even went to Christian schools and yet were not given a strong basis for their faith. Faith is not inherited, nor is it caught just by being around Christian people.  Paul tells us that faith comes by hearing the word of Christ (Rom. 10:17).  Therefore faith comes as the result of sound teaching from the Word of God.  The teachers of skepticism and unbelief are much more militant than the average Christian, including preachers.   Satan is a skilled assasin. Darts of doubt come at us from  all directions. Some of those darts pierced your heart.

 

I am sad for the loss your unbelief necessarily incurs. Without God, you have no hope beyond your few years on earth; no hope of reunion with loved ones with whom you spent happy days in this life.  The grave and endless nothingness is a dreary thing to comtemplate.  

 

Without God, you have no special worth as a man.  You are either a cosmic accident a bundle of clashing atoms  or a highly evolved animal. If God exists and if the Bible is true you are made in His image (Gen. 1:26) and thus have a dignity that lifts you far above the ape or gorilla. As a Christian you become a child of God (Gal. 3:26).

 

Christianity helped to make our Western Civilization and our United States a blessing to humanity. (Yes, I know that we have not always lived up to our standard). But atheism gave us Hitler's National Socialism, Lenin' and Stalin's Communist Russia and Castro's Cuba.

 

I do hope  you continue to go to church with you wife and read the Bible with a sincere desire to understand its message.  The gospel message is the power of God to save those who believe (Rom. 1:16).

 

I remain your respectful neighbor,

John Waddey

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